Notes and Queries, Number 224, February 11, 1854 / A Medium of Inter-communication for Literary Men, Artists, Antiquaries, Genealogists, etc.
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Title: Notes and Queries, Number 224, February 11, 1854

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*** START OF THE PROJECT GUTENBERG EBOOK NOTES AND QUERIES, NUMBER 224, FEBRUARY 11, 1854 ***

NOTES AND QUERIES:

A MEDIUM OF INTER-COMMUNICATION FOR LITERARY MEN, ARTISTS, ANTIQUARIES, GENEALOGISTS, ETC.

"When found, make a note of."—Captain Cuttle.

No. 224.

Saturday, February 11. 1854.

Price Fourpence.
Stamped Edition 5d.

CONTENTS.

Notes:— | Page
Eliminate, by C. Mansfield Ingleby | 119
Cranmer's Bible | 119
Sovereigns Dining and Supping in Public | 120
Parallel Ideas from Poets, by Norris Deck | 121
The great Alphabetic Psalm, and the Songs of Degrees, by T. J. Buckton | 121

Minor Notes:—Inscription on a Grave-stone in Whittlebury Churchyard, Northamptonshire—Epitaph on Sir Henry St. George—Newton and Milton—Eternal Life—Inscriptions in Books—Churchill's Grave

122

Queries:—
Coronation Stone | 123
Old Mereworth Castle, Kent | 124

Minor Queries:—"I could not love thee, dear, so much"—Leicester as Ranger of Snowden—Crabb of Telsford—Tolling the Bell while the Congregation is leaving Church—O'Brien of Thosmond—Order of St. David of Wales—Warple-way—Purlet—Liveries, Red and Scarlet—Dr. Bragge—Chauncy, or Chancy—Plaster Casts—Σίκερα—Dogs in Monumental Brasses

125

Minor Queries with Answers:—Marquis of Granby—"Memorials of English Affairs," &c.—Standing when the Lord's Prayer is read—Hypocrisy, &c.

127

Replies:—
"Consilium Novem Delectorum Cardinalium," &c., by B. B. Woodward | 127
John Bunyan, by George Offor | 129
The Asteroids, &c., by J. Wm. Harris | 129
Caps at Cambridge, by C. H. Cooper | 130
Russia, Turkey, and the Black Sea, by John Macray | 132
High Dutch and Low Dutch, by Professor Goedes de Grüter | 132
Photographic Correspondence:—The Calotype on the Sea-shore | 134

Replies to Minor Queries:—Ned o' the Todding—Hour-Glasses and Inscriptions on Old Pulpits—Table-turning—"Firm was their faith"—The Wilbraham Cheshire MS.—Mousehunt—Begging the Question—Termination "-by"—German Tree—Celtic Etymology—Recent Curiosities of Literature—D. O. M.—Dr. John Taylor—Lines attributed to Hudibras—"Corporations have no Souls," &c.—Lord Mayor of London a Privy Councillor—Booty's Case—"Sat cito, si sat bene"—Celtic and Latin Languages—Brydone the Tourist's Birth-place

135

Miscellaneous:—
Notes on Books, &c. | 138
Books and Odd Volumes wanted | 138
Notices to Correspondents | 139

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Notes.

ELIMINATE.

(Vol. v., p. 317.)

"N. & Q." has from time to time done much good service by holding up to reprobation modern and growing corruptions of the English language. I trust that its columns may be open to one more attempt to rescue from abuse the word which stands at the head of this article.

Its signification, whether sought from Latin usage and etymology, or from the works of English mathematicians, is "to turn out of doors," "to oust," or, as we say in the midland counties, "to get shut of." In French it may be rendered as well by se défaire as by éliminer. Within the last seven or eight years, however, this valuable spoil of dead Latinity has been strangely perverted, and, through the ignorance or carelessness of writers, it has bidden fair to take to itself two significations utterly distinct from its derivation, viz. to "elicit," and to "evaluate." The former signification, if less vicious, is more commonly used than the latter. I append examples of both from three of the most elegant writers of the day. In the third extract the word under consideration is used in the latter sense; in the other extracts it carries the former.

Lectures on the Philosophical Tendencies of the Age, by J. D. Morrell, London, 1848, p. 41.:

"Had the men of ancient times, when they peopled the universe with deities, a deeper perception of the religious element in the mind, than had Newton, when having eliminated the great law of the natural creation, his enraptured soul burst forth into the infinite and adored?"

I take one more illustration (among many others) from pp. 145, 146. of this work:

"It would not be strictly speaking correct to call them philosophical methods, because a philosophical method only exists when any tendency works itself clear, and gives rise to a formal, connected, and logical system of rules, by which we are to proceed in the elimination of truth."

The Eclipse of Faith, by Professor Rogers, London, 1852, p. 392.:

"They are now at college, and have imbibed in different degrees that curious theory which professedly recognises Christianity (as consigned to the New Testament) as a truly divine revelation, yet asserts that it is intermingled with a large amount of error and absurdity, and tells each man to eliminate the divine 'element' for himself. According to this theory, the problem of eliciting revealed truth may be said to be indeterminate, the value of the unknown varies through all degrees of magnitude; it is equal to any thing, equal to every thing, equal to nothing, equal to infinity."

Theological Essays, by F. D. Maurice, Cambridge, 1853, p. 89.:

"Let us look, therefore, courageously at the popular dogma, that there are certain great ideas floating in the vast ocean of traditions which the old world exhibits to us, that the gospel appropriated some of these, and that we are to detect them and eliminate them from its own traditions."

But for the fact that such writers have given the weight of their names to so unparalleled a blunder, it would seem almost childish to occupy the columns of a literary periodical with exposing it. It is, however, somewhat singular that it should be principally men of classical attainments who perpetrate it. In my under-graduate days at Cambridge, the proneness of "classical men" to commit the blunder in question was proverbial.

In conclusion, then, let it be remembered that the word "eliminate" obtained general currency from the circumstance of its being originally admitted into mathematical works. In such works elimination signifies the process of causing a function to disappear from an equation, the solution of which would be embarrassed by its presence there. In other writings the word "elimination" has but one correct signification, viz. "the extrusion of that which is superfluous or irrelevant." As an example of this legitimate use of the word, I will quote from Sir William Hamilton's accurate, witty, and learned article on "Logic," published in the Edinburgh Review, April, 1833:

"The preparatory step of the discussion was, therefore, an elimination of these less precise and appropriate significations, which, as they could at best only afford a remote genus and difference, were wholly incompetent for the purpose of a definition."

C. Mansfield Ingleby.

Birmingham.

CRANMER'S BIBLE.

Queries which I have heard at various times lead me to think that a Note on this interesting volume may be acceptable to many readers who possess or have access to it; and especially to those whose copies may be (as too many are) imperfect at the beginning and end. Under this impression I send you an extract from the late Mr. Lea Wilson's catalogue of his unrivalled Collection of English Bibles. As very few copies of this curious and beautiful work were printed, and not one, I believe, has been sold, it is probable that few of your readers are aware of the criteria which that gentleman's ingenuity and industry have furnished for distinguishing between the various editions which are known under the title of The Great Bible, or Cranmer's Bible. He begins his description of the edition of April, 1539, thus:

"As this volume is commonly called the First Edition of Cranmer's or the Great Bible, I class it with the Six following; although in fact the Archbishop had nothing whatever to do with either the translation or publication. It was put forth entirely by Thomas Lord Cromwell, vide Herbert's Ames, p. 1550. vol. iii., who employed Coverdale to revise the existing translations. The first wherein Cranmer took any part is the large folio of April 1540, the text of which differs from this edition materially. The pages of this volume and of the four next following begin and end alike; and the general appearance of the whole five is so very similar that at first sight, one may be mistaken for another by those ignorant of the fact that they are all separate and distinct impressions: the whole of the titles, of which there are five in each Book, and every leaf of kalendar, prologue, text, and tables being entirely recomposed, and varying throughout in orthography, &c. The desire to make perfect copies out of several imperfect, has also caused extreme confusion, by uniting portions of different editions without due regard to their identity. These remarks apply equally to the editions of Nov. 1540, and Nov. 1541, of which, in like manner, each page begins and ends with the same words. Although the distinctive marks are very numerous, yet being chiefly typographical ornaments or arrangement, it is impossible to give here sufficient guides to ensure the integrity of each volume."—Page 12.

On the next page but one is added:

"The following lines of the forty-first chapter of Job differ in composition in all the seven volumes, and for the purpose of distinguishing the edition I have given them to each."

No. 1. April, 1539.

No mā is so cruell, that is able to stere him up. *Who is able to stande before me? Or ‡who hath geuē me anything afore hande, that I maye rewarde him agayne? All thynges un-

No. 2. April, 1540.

No man is so cruell, yt is able to stere hī up. *Who is able to stāde before me? Or ‡who hath geuen me any thyng afore hāde, ye I maye rewarde him agayne? All thynges

No. 3. July, 1540.

No man is so cruell, yt is able to stere hym up. *who is able to stande before me? Or ‡who hath geuen me any thynge aforehande, that I maye rewarde him agayne?

No. 4. May, 1541.

No man is so cruell, that is hable to styrre hym up. *Who is hable to stande before me? Or ‡who hath geue me any thing aforehande, that I maye rewarde hym agayne? All thyn-

No. 5. December, 1541.

No mā is so cruel, that is able to styrre hym up. *Who is hable to stand before me? Or ‡who hathe gyuen me anye thynge afore hande, that I maye rewarde hym agayne?

No. 6. November, 1540.

No man is so cruell that is able to styr hym up. *Who is able to stande before me? Or ‡who hath geuen me any thynge afore hande, that I maye re-

No. 7. November, 1541.

No man is so cruell that is hable to styrre hym up. *Who is able to stande before me? Or ‡who hath gyuen me any thyng afore hande, that I maye rewarde hym agayne? All

I believe the foregoing to be an exact copy of Mr. Wilson's catalogue, but, of course, I cannot be responsible for the accuracy of his transcripts. Perhaps none but those who were admitted to his library ever had an opportunity of comparing together all those editions; and nobody would have done it with more care and fidelity than himself.

S. R. M.

SOVEREIGNS DINING AND SUPPING IN PUBLIC.

In some observations which I made upon two or three pictures in Hampton Court Palace, in Vol. viii., p. 538., I specified two worthy of notice on the above subject, and which are the first instances of such ceremony I have met with. It has been supposed to have been a foreign custom but I do not find any traces of it upon record.[1] One can easily imagine that the fastueux Louis XIV. would have no objection to such display, and that his mistresses, as well as queen, would be of the party, when we read, that in the royal progresses two of the former were scandalously paraded in the same carriage with his queen. To this immoral exhibition, indeed, public opinion seemed to give no check, as we read, that "les peuples accouraient 'pour voir,' disaient-ils, 'les trois reines,'" wherever they appeared together. Of these three queens, the true one was Marie-Thérèse: the two others were La Marquise de Montespan and Mme. de la Vallière. But to return to my subject. I find by the London Gazette, No. 6091. of Sept. 4, 1722, that Geo. I., in his progress to the west of England, supped in public at the Bishop's (Dr. Richard Willis) palace at Salisbury on Wednesday, Aug. 29, 1722; and slept there that night.

The papers of the period of George II. say:

"There was such a resort to Hampton Court on Sunday, July 14, 1728, to see their Majesties dine, that the rail surrounding the table broke; and causing some to fall, made a terrible scramble for hats, &c., at which their Majesties laughed heartily."

And,—

"On Thursday, the 25th of the same month, it is stated, the concourse to see their Majesties dine in public at Hampton Court was exceedingly great. A gang of robbers (the swell-mob of that day?) had mixed themselves among the nobility and gentry; several gold watches being lost, besides the ladies' gown tails and laced lappets cut off in number."

And again:

"On Sunday, 15th September, 1728, their Majesties dined together in public at Windsor (as they will continue to do every Sunday and Thursday during their stay there), when all the country people, whether in or out of mourning, were permitted to see them."

Besides those three occasions of George II. and Queen Caroline dining in public, we have another recorded attended with some peculiar circumstances, as mentioned in the London Gazette, No. 7623. of Tuesday, Aug. 2, 1737:

"The 31st ult. being Sunday, their Majesties, the Prince and Princess of Wales, and the Princesses Amelia and Caroline, went to chapel at Hampton Court, and heard a sermon preached by the Rev. Dr. Blomer. Their Majesties, and the rest of the royal family, dined afterwards in public as usual before a great number of spectators. About seven o'clock that evening, the Princess of Wales was taken with some slight symptoms of approaching labour, and was removed to St. James's; where, a little after eleven, she was delivered of a princess."

This was the Princess Augusta, who was married to the Prince of Brunswick Wolfenbüttel.

Φ.

Richmond.

Footnote 1:(return)

[The custom was observed at a much earlier period; for we find that King Edward II. and his queen Isabella of France kept their court at Westminster during the Whitsuntide festival of 1317; and on one occasion, as they were dining in public in the great banqueting-hall, a woman in a mask entered on horseback, and riding up to the royal table, delivered a letter to King Edward, who, imagining that it contained some pleasant conceit or elegant compliment; ordered it to be opened and read aloud for the amusement of his courtiers; but, to his great mortification, it was a cutting satire on his unkingly propensities, setting forth in no measured terms all the calamities which his misgovernment had brought upon England. The woman was immediately taken into custody, and confessed that she had been employed by a certain knight. The knight boldly acknowledged what he had done, and said, "That, supposing the King would read the letter in private, he took that method of apprising him of the complaints of his subjects."—Strickland's Queens of England, vol. i. p. 487.—Ed.]

PARALLEL IDEAS FROM POETS.

Longfellow and Tennyson:

"And like a lily on a river floating,

She floats upon the river of his thoughts."

Spanish Student, Act II. Sc. 3.

"Now folds the lily all her sweetness up,

And slips into the bosom of the lake;

So fold thyself, my dearest, thou, and slip

Into my bosom and be lost in me."

Princess, Part vii.

Wordsworth and Keble:

"A book, upon whose leaves some chosen plants

By his own hand disposed with nicest care,

In undecaying beauty were preserved;—

Mute register, to him, of time and place,

And various fluctuations in the breast;

To her, a monument of faithful love

Conquered, and in tranquillity retained!"

Excursion, Book vi.

"Like flower-leaves in a precious volume stor'd,

To solace and relieve

Some heart too weary of the restless world."

Christian Year: Prayers to be used at Sea.

Moore and Keble:

"Now by those stars that glance

O'er Heaven's still expanse

Weave we our mirthful dance,

Daughters of Zea!"

Evenings in Greece.

"Beneath the moonlight sky,

The festal warblings flow'd,

Where maidens to the Queen of Heaven

Wove the gay dance."

Christian Year: Eighth Sunday after Trinity.

Norris Deck.

Cambridge.

THE GREAT ALPHABETIC PSALM, AND THE SONGS OF DEGREES.

In attempting to discover a reason for the division of Psalm cxix. into twenty-two portions of eight verses each, instead of seven or ten, the more favourite numbers of the Hebrew, I have thought that, as the whole Psalm is chiefly laudatory of the Thorah, or Law of Moses, and was written alphabetically for the instruction mainly of the younger people, to be by them committed to memory, a didactic reason might exist for making up the total number of 176 verses, peculiar to this Psalm. Adverting then to the necessity, for the purposes of Jewish worship, of ascertaining the periods of the new moons, to adjust the year thereby, I find that a mean lunation, as determined by the latest authorities, is very nearly 29.5306 days (29d. 12h. 44m.) and as the Jewish months were lunar, six of these would amount to 177d. 4h. 24m., being somewhat more than one over the number of verses in this Psalm. As lunations, from observation, vary from 29d. 7h. 32m. to 29d. 18h. 50m., the above was a very close approximation to the half-year. The other half of the year would vary a whole lunation (Veadar) betwixt the ordinary and the intercalary year.[2] This was, at least, the best possible combination of twenty-two letters for such purpose. This Psalm might then have answered some of the purposes of an almanac. It is a very important one in fixing the Hebrew metres, the initial letter being the same for every eight verses in succession.

The words at the commencement of Psalms cxx. to cxxxiv., rendered "Song of Degrees," appear to me to signify rather "song of ascents," in reference to the Jewish practice of ascending to the house-top to watch and pray, as well as to sleep. If it be assumed that these fifteen Psalms were appropriated for domestic use on the Jew retiring, by ascending the ladder or stairs, to the upper part or top of the house (Ps. cxxxii. 3.), the meaning of several passages will be better apprehended, I conceive, than by supposing that they were composed solely for temple use, or, as Eichhorn thinks, to be sung on a journey. Standing on the house-top, the praying Jew, like David and Solomon, would have in view heaven and earth (cxxi. 2., cxxiii 1.), the sun and moon (cxxi. 6.), the surrounding hills (cxxi. 1.) and mountains (cxxv. 2.), the gates and city of Jerusalem (cxxii. 2. 3. 7.), Mount Zion (cxxv. 1.), the watchmen on the walls (cxxvii. 1., cxxx. 6.), his wife and children at home (cxxviii. 3., cxxxi. 2.), the mover bringing in his sheaves, compared with the grass on the house-tops (cxxix. 6-8.), all subjects especially noted in these fifteen Psalms. The number eight appears to be a favourite one in these, as well as in Psalm cxix., but there is no reason to believe that such number refers to the octave in music. It may refer, however, to the number of stairs or steps of ascent. I am not aware that the above views have been previously taken, which is my reason for calling attention to this interesting and well-debated subject.

T. J. Buckton.

Footnote 2:(return)

Their shortest ordinary year consisted of 353, and its half of 176½ days. The Mahometan ordinary half-year consists of 177 days. The calendar months of both Jews and Mahometans consist of 29 and 30 days.

Minor Notes.

Inscription on a Grave-stone in Whittlebury Churchyard, Northamptonshire.—

"In Memory of John Heath, he dy'd Decbr ye 17th,

1767. Aged 27 years.

While Time doth run from Sin depart;

Let none e'er shun Death's piercing dart;

For read and look, and you will see

A wondrous change was wrought on me.

For while I lived in joy and mirth

Grim Death came in and stop't my breath:

For I was single in the morning light,

By noon was marri'd, and was dead at night."

H. T. Wake.

Epitaph on Sir Henry St. George, Garter Principal King of Englishmen [sic in MS.], from a MS. in the Office of Arms, London (see Ballard MSS., vol. xxix.):

"Here lie a knight, a king, a saint,

Who lived by tilt and tournament.

His namesake, George, the dragon slew,

But, give the herald king his due,

He could disarm ten thousand men,

And give them arms and shields again.

But now the mighty sire is dead,

Reposing here his hoary head;

Let this be sacred to the mem'ry

Of knight St. George and of King Henry"

Balliolensis.

Newton and Milton.—Has it been observed that Sir Isaac Newton's dying words, so often quoted,—

"I am but as a child gathering pebbles on the seashore, while the great ocean of truth still lies undiscovered before me."

are merely an adaptation of a passage in Paradise Regained, book iv.:

"Deep versed in books and shallow in himself, Crude or intoxicate, collecting toys And trifles for choice matters, worth a sponge, As children gathering pebbles on the shore."

Anon.

Eternal Life.—In the Mishna (Berachoth, ch. ix. s. 5) the doctrine of a future eternal state is clearly set forth in a passage which is rendered by De Sola and Raphall:

"But since the Epicureans perversely taught, there is but one state of existence, it was directed that men should close their benedictions with the form [Blessed be the Lord God of Israel] from eternity to eternity."

A like explicit declaration of such future state occurs again in the Mishna (Sanhedrin, ch. xi. s. l.).

T. J. Buckton.

Birmingham.

Inscriptions in Books.—The following are taken literatim from the margins of an old black-letter Bible. From the numerous errors we may suppose they were copied from dictation by a person unacquainted with Latin.

"Quanto doctiores tanto te gesas submiseias."

"Forasmuch as yu art ye better learned,

By so much yu must carry thy self more lowly."

———

"Si deus est animus nobis ut carmina dicunt,

Sic tibi pricipus (bus?) sit pura mente colendus."

"Seing yt God is, as ye poets say,

A liveing soul, lets worship him alway."

———

"Tempora (e?) felici multa (i?) numerantur amici,

Cum fortuna perit nulus amicus erit."

"In time of prosperity friends will be plenty,

In time of adversity not one among twenty."

On the title-page, "John Threlkeld's Book:"

"Hujus in dominum cupius (as?) cognescere libri,

Supra prospiscias, nomen habebis ibi."

"Whose booke I am if you would know,

I will to you in letters show."

On the other side:

"Thomas Threlkeld is my name, and for to write ... ing ashame,

And if my pen had bene any better, I would have mended it every letter."

This last example closely resembles some others given in a late Number of "N. & Q."

J. R. G.

Dublin.

Churchill's Grave.—It is not perhaps generally known, that the author of The Rosciad was buried in the churchyard of St. Mary, Dover. On a small moss-covered head-stone is the following inscription:

"1764.

Here lie the remains of the celebrated

C. Churchill."

"Life to the last enjoy'd,

Here Churchill lies.

Candidate."

The notice is sufficiently brief; no date, except the year, nor age being recorded. The biographers inform us, that he died at Boulogne of a fever, while on a visit to Wilkes.

The cemetery where his remains are deposited is in the centre almost of Dover; and has recently been closed for the purposes of sepulture, with the exception of family vaults. Adjoining it is a small retired burial-place, containing at the most but two or three graves, and originally belonging to the Tavenors. Here is the tomb of Captain Samuel Tavenor, an officer of Cromwell, and, during his ascendancy, one of the governors of Deal Castle. Tavenor was a man distinguished for his courage, integrity, and piety.

J. Brent.

Queries.

CORONATION STONE.

A few years ago the following tradition was related to me by a friend, and I should be glad if any of your correspondents can inform me whether it is current in any part of Great Britain or Ireland, and whether there are any grounds for it. As it is connected with one of our most interesting national relics, the coronation stone, it may not prove beneath notice; and I here give it in full, shielding myself with the Last Minstrel's excuse:

"I know not how the truth may be,

But I tell the tale as 'twas told to me."

I must allow that its extreme vagueness, if not improbability, hardly warrants an inquiry; but having failed in obtaining any satisfactory proofs among my own friends, as a last resource I apply myself to the columns of your well-known and useful journal.

When Jacob awoke after his wonderful dream, as related in Genesis (chap. xxviii.), he said, "Surely the Lord is in this place, and I knew it not;" and he was afraid, and said, "How dreadful is this place. This is none other but the house of God; and this is the gate of heaven." He "took the stone that he had put for his pillow and set it up for a pillar, and poured oil upon the top of it. And Jacob vowed a vow, saying, If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat and raiment to put on, so that I come again to my father's house in peace, then shall the Lord be my God: and this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house; and of all that Thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto Thee."

That stone (so runs the legend) is supposed to have been taken away from Bethel by the House of Joseph, when they destroyed the city and its inhabitants (Judges i.); and a tradition, that whosoever possessed that stone would be especially blessed, and be king or chief, was current among the Jews; the stone itself being guarded by them with jealous care.

On the first destruction of Jerusalem, some of the royal family of Judah are supposed to have escaped, and to have gone in search of an asylum beyond the sea, taking this precious stone with them. Their resting-place was Ireland, where they founded a kingdom. Many centuries afterwards, a brother of the king descended from these exiles, named Fergus, went, with his brother's permission, to found a kingdom in Scotland. He said, however, he would not go without the sacred stone. This his brother refused to give him; but Fergus stole it, and established a kingdom in Scotland. His descendants became kings of all Scotland, and were crowned sitting on that stone, which was taken away by Edward I., and is now in Westminster Abbey.

These are the outlines of this tradition. My object now is to ask whether any of your correspondents can inform me, first, Whether the Jews had, or have, any like superstition concerning Jacob's pillar; and whether the royal family of Judah possessed such a stone among their treasures? Secondly, Whether any Jews are supposed to have settled in Ireland at so early a period; and whether (that being the case) there are now, or were once, proofs of their having done so, either in the Irish language or in any of the ancient laws, customs, buildings, &c. of the country? Thirdly, Whether the Scotch believe that stone to have come from Ireland; and whether that belief in the owner of it being king existed in Scotland? and, lastly, Can any of your correspondents, learned in geology, inform me whether the like kind of stone is to be met with in any part of the British Isles? or whether, as the legend runs, a similar kind of stone is found in the Arabian plains? The story has interested me greatly; and if I could gain any enlightenment on the subject, I should be much obliged for it.

An Indian Subscriber.

[Several of our historians, as Matthew of Westminster, Hector Boethius, Robert of Gloucester, the poet Harding, &c., have noticed this singular legend; but we believe the Rabbinical writers (as suggested by our Indian correspondent) have never been consulted respecting it. Sandford, in his valuable History of the Coronation of James II. (fol., 1687, p. 39.), has given some dates and names which will probably assist our correspondents in elucidating the origin of this far-famed relic. He says, "Jacob's stone, or The Fatal Marble Stone, is an oblong square, about twenty-two inches long, thirteen inches broad, and eleven inches deep, of a bluish steel-like colour, mixed with some veins of red; whereof history relates that it is the stone whereon the patriarch Jacob is said to have lain his head in the plain of Luza. That it was brought to Brigantia in the kingdom of Gallacia in Spain, in which place Gathal, King of Scots, sat on it as his throne. Thence it was brought into Ireland by Simon Brech, first King of Scots, about 700 years before Christ's time, and from thence into Scotland, by King Fergus, about 330 years before Christ. In the year 850 it was placed in the abbey of Scone in the sherifdom of Perth by King Kenneth, who caused it to be inclosed in a wooden chair (now called St. Edward's Chair), and this prophetical distich engraven on it:

'Ni fallat Fatum, Scoti hunc quocunque locatum

Inveniunt lapidem, regnare tenentur ibidem.'

'If Fates go right, where'er this stone is found,

The Scots shall monarchs of that realm be crown'd.'

Which is the more remarkable by being fulfilled in the person of James I. of England." Calmet, however, states that the Mahometans profess to have this relic in their custody. He says, The Mahometans think that Jacob's stone was conveyed to the Temple of Jerusalem, and is still preserved in the mosque there, where the Temple formerly stood. They call it Al-sakra, or the stone of unction. The Cadi Gemaleddin, son of Vallel, writes, that passing through Jerusalem, in his way to Egypt, he saw Christian priests carrying glass phials full of wine over the Sakra, near which the Mussulmen had built their temple, which, for this reason, they call the Temple of the Stone. The wine which the Christian priests set upon the stone was no doubt designed for the celebration of mass there."]

OLD MEREWORTH CASTLE, KENT.

Among your subscribers there are doubtless many collectors of topographical drawings and engravings. I shall feel specially obliged if any of them could find in their collections a view of old Mereworth Castle (as it stood prior to the comparatively modern erection of Lord Westmoreland), and furnish me with a long desiderated description of it. Local tradition represents it as having been a baronial castle rising from the middle of a small lake, like that of Leeds, though of smaller dimensions, with the parish church attached. I should rather conjecture it to have been an ancient moated manor-house, magnified, in the course of tradition, into a baronial castle and lake.

Whatever the old building was, it was pulled down by John, seventh Earl of Westmoreland, during the first half of the last century. Had it been of the character of Leeds Castle, as the representative of a long line of baronial ancestry, he would hardly have levelled such a structure, with all its inspiring associations, merely for the purpose of gratifying his passion for Palladian architecture by the erection of the present mansion.

The ancient building seems to have been the residence of the knightly family of De Mereworth during the twelfth, thirteenth, and part of the fourteenth centuries, and from that time, till near the end of Elizabeth's reign, it ceased to be a family residence; for, after passing through various hands (none of whom were likely to have resided there), it descended in 1415 to Joan, wife of the Lord Burgavenny, sister and coheir to the Earl of Arundel. The Burgavennys of that day resided always at their castle of Birling, which circumstance would intimate that it was a grander and more baronial residence than Mereworth Castle (for they had come into possession of both estates very nearly at the same period); and afterwards Mereworth by settlement passed to Sir Thomas Fane of Badsell, in marriage with Mary, daughter and sole heiress of Henry Lord Burgavenny, and "jure suo" Baroness Despencer, in 1574. From that time till its dismantling in the last century, Mereworth Castle was again a family residence, the seat of the Earls of Westmoreland; Francis, eldest son of said Sir Thomas Fane and Mary Baroness Despencer, having been advanced to that earldom. As the seat of a noble family for more than a century and a half, it is hardly likely that no view should have been taken of it; I have searched, however, in vain for it in Harris, Buck, and other published collections.

It would be a matter of special interest to many besides myself, to obtain some information respecting it.

John, seventh earl, the builder of the present Palladian mansion, died in 1762, when the earldom passed to a distant cousin, and the barony of Despencer was called out of abeyance in favour of Sir Francis Dashwood, the son and representative of Mary, sister and eldest co-heir of John, seventh Earl of Westmoreland, and heir to his estates. On his death s.p., Sir Thomas Stapleton, sole heir to the Barony of Despencer (as lineal descendant and heir of Catherine, the younger sister and co-heir of the said John, seventh earl), succeeded to the estate; and from him it has lineally descended to Mary, Viscountess Falmouth, and "jure suo" Baroness Despencer, the present representative of the family. At Mereworth Castle itself, where the Viscount and Viscountess Falmouth reside, there is no view of the old building; but it is very possible that some drawing or engraving of it may exist in some of the residences of the Earls of Westmoreland subsequent to the seventh earl, or at the seat of the Dashwoods, or in the British Museum.

I trouble you with this Query, in the hope that, among your numerous readers, some one may be placed in a position to give us information on the subject. In doing so they would greatly oblige

Cantianus.

Minor Queries.

"I could not love thee, dear, so much."—Where are the following lines to be found? what is the context?

"I could not love thee, dear, so much,

Loved I not honour more."

H.

Leicester as Ranger of Snowden.—In the reign of Queen Elizabeth, Leicester was made Ranger of Snowden Forest, and using violent means to extort unjust taxes from the people, under cover of this appointment, he was opposed and resisted by eight Welsh gentlemen, under the leadership of Sir Richard Bulkeley, of Baron Hill, in Anglesey. Among these was a Madryn of Madryn, a Hugh ap Richard of Cefnllanfair, a Griffith of Cefn Amlwch, &c. These patriotic gentlemen met with imprisonment in the Tower of London as their only recompense; and there are extant poems by Guttyn, Peris, and other bards, addressed to them on the subject. I should be obliged to any of your correspondents to give me any farther information on this subject, or reference to documents which bear upon it.

Elffin ap Gwyddno.

Crabb of Telsford.—Any information respecting the settlement of the family of Crabb, or Crabbe, at Telsford, county of Somerset, together with the names of the present representatives of that family, would be most thankfully received through the medium of your valuable pages, or in any other way, by

One of the Name.

Tolling the Bell while the Congregation is leaving Church.—Can you inform me why this is done at Richmond Church; and whether the custom is adopted in any other?[3]

J. H. M.

Footnote 3:(return)

[This custom is observed in many of the London churches.—Ed.]

O'Brien of Thosmond.—In the Calendar of Inquisitions post mortem, there appears one taken on the death of Alicia, wife of Nicholas Thosmound, in the second year of King Henry IV. The estates were in Somersetshire. From the appearance of this name, I suspect it is not an English one; but rather an old form of spelling the name of the province of Tothmound or Thomond (South Munster), Ireland; and that this Nicholas was an O'Brien, who called himself from his family's principality, for it was not uncommon in England formerly to take names from estates. Perhaps some of your correspondents having access to the Inquisition would ascertain more on the subject, and give it to the public. The name of Nicholas O'Brien occurs in the Irish rolls of Chancery about that very period.

A. B.

Order of St. David of Wales.—In the reign of Queen Elizabeth there was an order of knighthood—the Order of St. David of Wales. When was that Order created? Who was the first knight? Who was the last knight? What prelate was the chaplain to the Order? Why was it dissolved? Why is it not revived again? We have several Welsh peers, noblemen, knights; four bishops, men of science and learning, Welshmen. I hope the good Queen Victoria will revive this ancient order of knighthood, and the Prince of Wales be created the first knight. The emblem of Wales is a red dragon.

Can any of your readers give an account of this ancient order? Some years ago there were several letters in The Times, and other papers, respecting it and the Welsh motto. Wales should have its knight as well as Ireland, Scotland, and England.

W.

Warple-way.—The manor of Richmond, in Surrey, has been the property of the crown for many hundred years, I may say from time immemorial: and in all the old records and plans, the green roads are called "warple-ways." Some of the old plans are marked "worple way," some "warple way " Can any of your readers tell me the derivation and meaning of the word, and refer me to an authority?

Wm. Smythe.

Purlet.—Nelson, and the subsequent historians of Islington, relate a marvellous story on the authority of Purlet de Mir. Nat. x. c. iv.:

"And as to the same heavings, or tremblements de terre, it is sayde, yt in a certaine fielde neare unto ye parish church of Islingtoun, in like manner, did take place a wondrous commotion in uarious partes, ye earthe swellinge, and turninge uppe euery side towards ye midst of ye sayde fielde; and, by tradycion of this, it is obserued yt one Richard de Clouesley lay buryed in or neare yt place, and yt his bodie being restles, on ye score of some sinne by him peraduenture committed, did shewe or seeme to signifye yt religious obseruance should there take place, to quiet his departed spirit; whereupon certaine exorcisers, if wee may so term ym, did at dede of night, nothing lothe, using divers diuine exercises at torche light, set at rest ye unrulie spirit of ye shade Clouesley, and ye earthe did returne aneare to its pristine shape, neuermore commotion procedeing therefrom to this day, and this I know of a verie certaintie."—Nelson's Islington, 4to. 1811, p. 305., or 8vo. 1823, p. 293.

The spelling of this extract seems at least as old as the time of Cloudesley's death (1517), although it would appear to be a translation; and though the exorcism is apparently spoken of as having taken place long before the time of the writer. From these and other circumstances, I am led to suspect that Nelson was the victim of cruel hoax, particularly as I am unable to find any such book as Purlet de Mir. Nat. in the British Museum.

Query, Does any such book exist; and if so, where?

Frideswide.

Islington.

Liveries, Red and Scarlet.—In a Provincial paper, I noticed a paragraph dating the origin of wearing red coats in fox-hunting from a mandate of Henry II., who it appears made fox-hunting a royal sport, and gave to all distributors of foxes the scarlet uniform of the royal household: this also would involve another question as regards the origin of scarlet being the colour of the royal livery. Can any of your sporting or antiquarian correspondents give me any authority for the former, and any information about the latter?

W. E. W. Rumbold.

Dr. Bragge.—I shall be much obliged to any of your correspondents who will give me information respecting Dr. Bragge, who flourished about the year 1756. Who was he? Where did he get his degree? Who were his chief dupes? Where did he live? He appears, from various inscriptions round an engraved portrait, to have been a great duping dealer in pictures.

E. H.

Chauncy, or Chancy.—Any reference to works containing biographical notices of Charles Chauncy, or Chancy, M.A., Fellow of Trinity College, Cambridge, circa 1620, will oblige

J. Y.

Plaster Casts.—Ruby would be thankful for a good receipt for bronzing plaster casts.

"Σίκερα."—In the prophecy regarding the birth of John the Baptist (Luke i. 15.) the angel says:

"Καὶ οἶνον καὶ σίκερα ὀυ μη πίῃ."

This is in the authorised version (I quote the original 1611 edit.) rightly rendered:

"And shal drinke neither wine nor strong drinke."

Now, in the Golden Legend, fol. cxl. (Wynkyn de Worde's edition, London, 1516) is this account:

"For he shal be grete, and of grete meryte tofore our Lord: he shall not drinke wyne, ne syder, ne thynge wherof he myght be dronken."

I need hardly remind your readers that that σίκερα was often used by the LXX translators for an intoxicating liquor, as distinguished from wine, viz. Levit. x. 9., Numbers vi. 3., &c., and in about nine places; but I do not remember "syder" as the "thynge wherof he myghte be dronken." Can any of your philological friends call to mind a similar version? I do not want to be told the derivation of σίκερα, for that is obvious; nor do I lack information as to the inebriating qualities of "syder," for, alas! an intimate acquaintance with Devonshire has often brought before my notice persons "dronken" with that exhilarating beverage.

Richard Hooper.

St. Stephen's, Westminster.

Dogs in Monumental Brasses.—Is there any symbolical meaning conveyed in the dogs which are so often introduced at the feet of ladies in brasses, and dogs and lions at the feet of knights? One fact is worthy of notice, that while the omission of the dog is frequent in the brasses of ladies (e.g. in that of Lady Camoys, 1424, at Trotten, Sussex, and Joan, Lady Cobham, 1320, Cobham, Kent, and several others), the lion or dog, as the case may be, of the knight is scarcely ever left out; indeed, I have only been able to find two or three instances. But again, in brasses later than 1460, the dogs and lions are seldom, if ever, found either in the brasses of knights or ladies. Can you afford me any information on these points?

B. H. Alford.

Tonbridge, Kent.

Minor Queries with Answers.

Marquis of Granby.—In a late number of Chamber's Journal it is stated that there are eighteen taverns in London bearing the sign of the Marquis of Granby. How did this sign become so popular and which marquis was it whose popularity gained him immortality; and when lived he?

J. M. Wharton.

[This sign is intended as a compliment to John Manners, commonly called Marquis of Granby, eldest son of John, third Duke of Rutland, who appears to have been a good, bluff-brave soldier—active, generous, careful of his men, and beloved by them. Mr. Peter Cunningham (Handbook, p. 398., edit. 1850) informs us, that "Granby spent many an happy hour at the Hercules Pillars public-house, Piccadilly, where Squire Western put his horses up, when in pursuit of Tom Jones." He died, much regretted, on October 19, 1770, without succeeding to the dukedom.

"What conquests now will Britain boast,

Or where display her banners?

Alas! in Granby she has lost

True courage and good Manners."

His popularity is shown by the frequent occurrence of his portrait as a sign-board for public-houses, even of late years; a fact which at once testifies in favour of his personal qualities, and indicates the low state of our military fame during the latter half of the last century.]

"Memorials of English Affairs," &c.—Can you inform me who was the author of a folio volume entitled—

"Memorials of the English Affairs; or an Historical Account of what passed from the beginning of the Reign of King Charles I. to King Charles II. his happy 'Restauration;' containing the Public Transactions, Civil and Military, together with the Private Consultations and Secrets of the Cabinet. London: printed for Nathanael Conder, at the Sign of the Peacock in the Poultry, near the Church, MDCLXXXII."

I have never seen any other copy than the one in my possession.

L. R.

[This work is by Sir Bulstrode Whitelocke. The edition of 1682, possessed by our correspondent, was published by Arthur, Earl of Anglesea, who took considerable liberties with the manuscript. The best edition, containing the passages cancelled by the Earl, is that of 1732, fol. "This work," says Bishop Warburton, "that has been so much cried up, is a meagre diary, wrote by a poor-spirited, self-interested, and self-conceited lawyer of eminence, but full of facts." At p. 378. (edit. 1682) occurs the following entry:—"From the council of state, Cromwell and his son Ireton went home with Whitelocke to supper, where they were very cheerful, and seemed extremely well-pleased; they discoursed together till twelve o'clock at night, and told many wonderful observations of God's providence in the affairs of the war, and in the business of the army's coming to London, and seizing the members of the house, in all which were miraculous passages." To this sentence in the copy now before us, some sturdy royalist has added the following MS. note:—"Whitelocke reports this of himself, as being well pleased with it; and the success of their villany they accounted God's providence!"]

Standing when the Lord's Prayer is read.—On Sunday, January 8, the second lesson for morning service is the sixth chapter of St. Matthew, in which occurs the Lord's Prayer. When the officiating clergyman began to read the ninth verse, in which the prayer commences, the congregation at Bristol Cathedral rose, and remained standing till its conclusion. Is this custom observed in other places? and (if there is to be a change of position) why do the congregation stand, and not kneel, the usual posture of prayer in the Church of England?

Cervus.

[The custom, we believe, is observed in the majority of churches. The reasons for standing rather than kneeling seems to be, that when the Lord's Prayer comes in the course of the lessons it is only read historically, as a part of a narrative, which indicates that the whole sacred narrative should be treated, as it was anciently, with the like reverence. The rubric says nothing about sitting; standing and kneeling being the only postures expressly recognised. In the curious engraving of the interior of a church, prefixed to Bishop Sparrow's Rationale upon the Book of Common Prayer, 1661, there is not a seat of any kind to be seen, pews not having become at this time a general appendage to churches; probably a few chairs or benches were required for the aged or infirm.. The only intimation of the sitting posture in our present Common Prayer-Book occurs in the rubric, enjoining the people to stand when the Gospel is read, which Wheatly tells us was first inserted in the Scotch Common Prayer-Book. See "N. & Q.," Vol. ii., pp. 246. 347.]

Hypocrisy, &c.—Can you inform me with whom originated the following saying: "Hypocrisy is the homage which vice renders to virtue"?

A. C. W.

[The saying originated with the Duke de la Rochefoucault, and occurs in his Moral Maxims, No. 233.]

Replies.

"CONSILIUM NOVEM DELECTORUM CARDINALIUM," ETC.

(Vol. viii., p. 54.)

The Note of your correspondent Novus upon this Consilium ought to have been answered before; but as none of your contributors who can speak as "having authority" have undertaken to do so, I beg to offer to your readers the following statements and extracts, collected when my surprise at the assertions of Novus was quite fresh.

The first point on which Novus requires correction is, the name of the pontiff to whom the Consilium purports to be addressed. Novus says Julius III., but the date of this document is unquestionably not later than the beginning of 1538, for Sleidan tells us that editions of it were printed at Rome, at Cologne, at Strasburg, and at another place, in the course of the year 1538; and in the title it is distinctly stated to have been presented to Paul III., who was pope in that year, whilst Julius III. was not elected till 1550.

When Novus says that this Consilium "has just been once more quoted, for the fiftieth time, perhaps, within the present generation, as a genuine document, and as proceeding from adherents of the Church of Rome," he falls short of the fact. For every writer of the least mark, or likelihood, whose subject has led him that way, has quoted it: thus, e.g., Ranke, who in his great work on The Popes and the Papacy, book ii. § 2., refers to it as indicative of no dishonourable design on the part of the supreme pontiff.

Amongst the writers of the time when the Consilium is said to have been drawn up, who regarded it as genuine, we may mention Luther, who, soon after it found its way into Germany, published a translation, with one of his biting caricatures prefixed; and Sturm, who prefaced his translation with a letter to the cardinals to whom it was ascribed, for which reason alone his edition was put in the "Index," no other edition being similarly honoured; and this sufficiently refutes a statement of Schelhorn, in his letter to Cardinal Quirinus, upon which much reliance has been placed by those whom Novus would regard as sharers of his opinion.

The appearance of the editions at Cologne and Strasburg in 1538, testifies to the speed with which the Consilium reached Germany. Sleidan asserts that, when it was published there, some fancied it to be fictitious, and intended to ridicule both the Pope and the Reformation; but others, that it was a device of the Pope to gain credit for not being hostile to the correction of certain confessed abuses. In the next year, on July 16th, Aleander wrote to Cochlæus thus:

"Multa haberem scribere de Republica, sed mali custodes estis rerum arcanarum,—Consiliis Cardinalium promulgatis, cum invectiva Sturmii, manibus hominum teritur, antequam vel auctoribus edita, vel executioni fuerit demandata."

Which passage might be regarded as decisive of the question of genuineness, since Aleander was one of the Cardinales delecti whose names are appended to the Consilium.

That Le Plat should insert a copy in his Monument. ad Hist. Concil. Trident. potius illustr. spect., may, perhaps, be considered an unsatisfactory argument; and the same will certainly be thought of the use of it by Sarpi. But Pallavicini is a witness not obnoxious to objections which apply to them, and he says:

"It happened by Divine Providence, that this Consilium was published, since it showed what were in fact the deepest wounds in the discipline of the Church, ascertained with great diligence, and exposed with the utmost freedom by men of incomparable zeal and knowledge. And these were neither falsity of dogmas, nor corruption of the Scriptures, nor wickedness of laws, nor politic craft beneath the garb of humility, nor impure vices, as the Lutherans asserted; but too great indulgence towards violations and abrogations of laws, which Luther far more licentiously abrogated," &c.—Vide book IV. ch. v., at the end.

But Ranke's note upon a casual reference to this document in book I. ch. ii. § 2. of his History of the Papacy, completely disposes of the question of its genuineness, and therefore of its "seriousness" (to use one of Novus' phrases), when taken in conjunction with what has gone before.

"Consilium, &c.; printed more than once even at the time, and important as pointing out the evil, so far as it lay in the administration of discipline, precisely and without reserve. Long after it had been printed, the MS. remained incorporated with the MSS. of the Curia."

Were it not that the assertion of Novus is so roundly made, and in a form that is sure to adhere in the memories of readers sufficiently interested in the subject to notice his communication, it would have been enough to quote from one of the works he refers to, as containing copies of the Consilium, to expose the origin of his error; and this, now that I have shown it to be an error, I crave your permission to do. This, then, is what Brown says in his Appendix ad Fascicul. Rer. Expetend. et Fugiend. (commonly cited as Fascicul. vol. ii.), ed. 1690, pp. 230, 231.:

"Sæpius excusum est Consilium sequens, cum alibi, tum hic Londini, A.D. 1609, ex bibliothecâ Wilh. Crashavii, qui in Epistolâ dedicatoriâ ad Revmum D. Tobiam Matthæum Archiep. Eboracen. citat quædam è Commentariis Espencæi in Tit. cap. i. ad hoc Consilium ab omni fraudis et fictionis suspicione liberandum; quasi præsensisset Crashavius fore aliquando ut pro re, omnino ficta et falsa censeretur; cum id in novissimis Conciliorum editionibus desiderari, et astute suppressum esse viderat, ut est in admonitione suâ ad Lectorem. Sed longe aliter res habebit; suo enim de sorex prodidit indicio; et Cochlæus ipse (qui nesciit pro nobis mentiri, quantumvis in causâ suâ parum probus aliquando), hujusce Consilii fidem ab omni labe improbitatis vindicavit et asseruit in historiâ suâ de Actis et Scriptis Lutheri, ad annum 1539, fol. 312. &c. editionis Colonien. 1568. editum est præterea, hoc idem Consilium, Parisiis, publicâ authoritate, una cum Guliel. Durandi tractatu de modo Generalis Concilii celebrandi; Libello Clamengii de corrupto Ecclesiæ statu; Libello Cardinalis de Alliaco, de emendatione Ecclesiæ; et Gentiani Herveti oratione de reparandâ Ecclesiasticâ disciplinâ (quæ omnia, excepto primo, huic appendici inserentur), A.D. 1671. In hac nostrâ editione sequimur virum doctissimum et pium Hermannum Conringium; adhibitis multis aliis exemplaribus, quæ omniâ simul in hoc uno leges. Vin' autem, Lector, aliquid penitius de hoc Corsilio rescire? adisis [sic] P. Paulum Vergerium (invisum aliis sed charum nobis nomen), illiusque annotationes, in Catalogum hæreticorum consule, fol. 251. tomi primi illius operum Tubingæ editi, A.D. 1563, in 4to., et siquid noveris de reliquorum tomorum editione, nos Anglos fac, quæso, certiores. [It would seem that the need of your "N. & Q." was felt long before any one thought of supplying it.] Audi vero, interea, vel lege, Hermannum Conringium."

And this is what that "learned and godly" man says:

"Libellus ipse Cardinalis Capuani [Nicholas Schomberg], ut creditur, cura ad amicum in Germaniam missus, mox anno 1539, et populari nostrâ et suâ est linguâ per Lutherum et Sturmium editus. Eundem post vulgavit, cum acri ad Papam Paulum IV. (qui olim fuerat auctorum) præfatione, Petrus Paulus Vergerius, postquam Protestantium partibus accessisset."

I will not add to the length of this Note by any farther quotations; but I am bound to say that if those I have given do not satisfy Novus, he may expect to be overwhelmed by confirmations of them.

B. D. Woodward.

Bungay, Suffolk.

JOHN BUNYAN.

(Vol. ix., p. 104.)

A highly respected correspondent, Dr. S. R. Maitland, has seen an advertisement in the Mercurius Reformatus of June 11, 1690, announcing the intention of Bunyan's widow to publish ten manuscripts which her husband had left prepared for the press, together with some of his printed treatises which had become scarce. He inquires whether such a publication took place. In reply I beg leave to state that they were published in a small folio, containing "ten [and two fragments] of his excellent manuscripts, and ten of his choice books formerly printed." The volume bears the title of "The Works of that eminent Servant of Christ Mr. John Bunyan, late Minister of the Gospel and Pastor of the Congregation at Bedford. The first volume. London, by Wm. Marshall, 1692." It has the portrait by Sturt, and an impression from the original curious copper-plate inscribed, "A Mapp, showing the order and causes of Salvation and Damnation." In addition to the Mercurius, John Dunton and others noticed, in terms of warm approval, the intended publication, which became extensively patronised, but has now become very scarce.

To the lovers of Bunyan it is peculiarly interesting, being accompanied by a tract called "The Struggler," written by one of his affectionate and intimate friends, the Rev. C. Doe, containing a list of Bunyan's works, with the time when each of them was published, some personal characteristic anecdotes, and thirty reasons why all decided Christians should read and circulate these invaluable treatises. A copy presented to me by my worthy friend the late Mr. Creasy of Sleaford, which is in remarkably fine condition, has on the title to the Index a printed dedication to Sir John Hartop of Newington, the patron and friend of Dr. Watts. This volume was to have been followed by a second, to complete Bunyan's works, but difficulties arose as to the copyright of the more popular pieces, which prevented its publication. The original prospectus is preserved in the British Museum, which, with "The Struggler" and a new index to the whole of these truly excellent treatises, is reprinted in my edition of Bunyan's whole works for the first time collected and published, with his Life, in three volumes imperial 8vo., illustrated with fac-similes of all the old woodcuts and many elegant steel plates.

George Offor.

Hackney.

THE ASTEROIDS, ETC.

(Vol. ix., p. 36.)

It is certainly an uncomfortable idea to suppose that the asteroids are the fragments of a former world, perhaps accompanied with satellites which have been scattered either by internal convulsion or external violence. By looking into the constitution and powers contained within our own earth, we know that the means are not wanting to rend us asunder under the combined effects of volcanic action, intense heat, and water, meeting deep within the substance of the earth under great pressure.

However, there is much to be said against the theory of Olbers, notwithstanding its plausibility. The distance between the internal asteroid Flora, and the external one Hygeia, exceeds ninety millions of miles; or nearly the distance between the earth and the sun. The force which could shatter a world into fragments, and drive them asunder to such an extent, must indeed be tremendous.

Mr. Hind has drawn attention to the singular fact, that the asteroids "appear to separate the planets of small mass from the greater bodies of the system, the planets which rotate on their axes in about the same time as our earth from those which are whirled round in less than half that time, though of ten times the diameter of the earth and," he continues, "it may yet be found that these small bodies, so far from being portions of the wreck of a planet, were created in their present state for some wise purpose, which the progress of astronomy in future ages may eventually unfold."

One thing I think is certain, that no disruption of a world belonging to our system could take place without producing some perceptible effect upon every other member of the system. The single centre of attraction being suddenly diffused and spread abroad into many smaller ones, at variable distances, must produce a sudden sway and alteration of position in all the other planets, and to a certain extent, derange their respective economies. From this some striking changes would necessarily arise, such as in the length of their respective periods of revolution, the amount of light and heat, and other physical conditions. Certain geological phenomena should be found to confirm such a change, if these suppositions be true.

As far as the theological part of the question is concerned, it is, I should think, opposed to Olbers' theory. Human intellect can scarcely conceive the necessity for the utter breaking up of a globe, even for the most grievous amount of sin. A more merciful dispensation was granted to our earth in the deluge; and the Power which removed all but eight lives from the earth could have equally removed the eight also, without destroying the integrity of the globe. It is as easy, and far more reasonable I think, to suppose, that the same Power which gave to Saturn a satellite nearly equal in size to Mars, should throw a cluster of minute planetoids into the space which, according to Bodes' empirical law, should have been devoted to one planet of larger dimensions.

Whilst addressing you on astronomical subjects, I would beg leave to offer a few remarks upon Saturn, which I have not observed in any work on astronomy which I have yet consulted. This planet, with its satellites, appear to exhibit a close resemblance to the solar system, just as if it were a model of it.

Besides his rings, Saturn is attended by eight satellites, so far as is at present known. The names of the satellites in their order from the body of the planet, are 1. Mimas, 2. Euceladus, 3. Tethys, 4. Dione, 5. Rhea, 6. Titan, 7. Hyperion, 8. Japetus. If we place them in a list in their order, and overagainst each place the names of the planets in their order from the sun, certain parallelisms will appear:

1. Mimas | 1. Mercury.
2. Euceladus | 2. Venus.
3. Tethys | 3. Earth.
4. Dione | 4. Mars.
5. Rhea | 5. Asteroids.
6. Titan | 6. Jupiter.
7. Hyperion | 7. Saturn.
8. Japetus | 8. Uranus.

The relative magnitudes and relative positions of these bodies correspond in many points, I believe, so far as is at present known. Titan, like Jupiter, is the largest of his system; being but little less in size than the primary planet Mars. The next in magnitude is Japetus. Rhea is supposed to be of considerable size. The four inner ones are smaller than the others. Sir William Herschell considered that Tethys was larger than Euceladus, and Euceladus larger than Mimas. Dione and Hyperion have not yet been well estimated. These dimensions, if correct, correspond in many points with those of the planets. The first three satellites revolve in orbits of less diameter than that of our moon. The orbit of Dione, the fourth satellite, is almost precisely at the same distance from its primary as the moon is from the earth. As if to carry out the parallelism to the utmost, the zodiacal light of the sun has often been compared to the ring of Saturn.

One remark it would appear arises out of these observations, viz. that the laws of attraction and gravitation seem to require, for the proper regulation of the whole system, that where a number of bodies of various sizes revolve round one common centre, the larger body should revolve at a certain relative distance from that centre. Thus Titan, like a huge pendulum, seems to sway and maintain the regularity of the minor system, just as Jupiter may be imagined to do in the great one.

I must not intrude too far on your valuable space, but there remain some interesting points for discussion in the Saturnian system.

John William Harrris.

Exon.

CAPS AT CAMBRIDGE.

(Vol. ix., p. 27.)

The extract from an unpublished MS. given by A Regent M.A. of Cambridge refers to the year 1620, as will appear from the following passages in Anthony à Wood's Hist. and Antiq. of Univ. of Oxford.

"1614.—In the latter end of the last and beginning of this year, a spirit of sedition (as I may so call it) possessed certain of the Regent Masters against the Vicechanc. and Doctors. The chief and only matter that excited them to it was their sitting like boys, bare-headed, in the Convocation-House, at the usual assemblies there, which was not, as 'twas thought, so fit, that the Professors of the Faculty of Arts (on which the University was founded) should, all things considered, do it. The most forward person among them, named Henry Wightwicke, of Gloucester Hall, having had some intimation of a statute which enabled them to be covered with their caps, and discovering also something in the large west window of St. Mary's Church, where pictures of Regents and non-Regents were sitting covered in assemblies before the Chancellor, clapt on his cap, and spared not to excite his brethren to vindicate that custom, now in a manner forgotten; and, having got over one of the Regents to be more zealous in the matter than himself, procured the hands of most, if not all, of them to be set to a petition (in order to be sent to the Chancellor of the University), for the effecting and bringing about the matter. But the Vicechancellor, Dr. Singleton, having had timely notice of the design, sends a full relation of the matter to the Chancellor; whereupon answer was returned, that he should deal therein as he should think fit. Wightwicke, therefore, being called into question for endeavouring to subvert the honour and government of the University, whereby he ran himself into perjury (he having before taken an oath to keep and maintain the rites, customs, and privileges of the University), was banished, and his party, who had proved false to him, severely checkt by the Chancellor.

"At length Wightwicke's friends, laying open to him the danger that he would run himself into, if he should not seek restauration and submit, did, after his peevish and rash humour had been much courted to it, put up a petition (subscribed in his behalf by the Bishop of London and Sir John Bennett) to the Chancellor of the University for his restauration, which being with much ado granted, but with this condition, that he make an humble recantation in the Convocation, sent to his Vicechancellor what should be done in the matter, and among other things thus:—'For the manner of his submission and recognition which he is to make, I will not take upon me to direct, but leave yt wholy unto your wisdomes, as well for manner as for the matter; only thus much generally I will intimate unto you, that the affront and offence committed by Whittwicke in the Congregation House by his late insolent carriage there was very great and notorious, and that offence afterwards seconded and redoubled by another as ill or worse than the former, in his seditious practizing and procuring a multitude of handes, thereby thinking to justifie and maintain his former errors, and his proud and insolent disobedience and contempt. I hold yt therefore very requisite that his submission and recognition, both of the one fault and of the other, should be as publique and as humble as possibly with conveniencye may bee. Which being thus openly done, as I hope yt will bee a good example to others, to deter them from committing the like offence hereafter, so I do also wishe this his punishment may be only ad correctionem et non ad destructionem."

"This being the effect of the Chancellor's mind, Wightwicke was summoned to appear to make his submission in the next Convocation, which being held 25 June this year, he placed himself in the middle of St. Mary's chancel, and spoke with an audible voice as followeth:

"'Ornatissime Domine Procancellarie, vosque Domini Doctores pientissimi, quotquot me vel banniendum vel bannitionem meam ratam esse voluistis ut vobis omnibus et singulis innotescat discupio: me Henricum Whitwicke pileum coram Domino Vicecancellario Thoma Singleton capiti haud ita pridem imposuisse, quod nemini Magistrorum in Congregatione vel Convocatione [in presentia Domini Vicecancellarii aut Doctoris alicujus] licere fateor. Scitote quæso prætereà, me supradictum Henricum à sententia Domini Vicecancellarii ad venerabilem Domum Congregationis provocasse, quod nec licitum nec honestum esse in causa perturbationis pacis facilè concedo. Scitote denique me solum, manus Academicorum egregiè merentium Theologia Baccalaureorum et in Artibus Magistrorum in hac corona astantium Collegiatim et Aulatim cursitando rescripto apponendas curasse, in quibus omnibus Præfectis [summe] displicuisse, in pacem almæ hujus Academiæ et in dignissimum nostrum Procancellarium deliquisse, parum nolenti animo confiteor, et sanctitates vestras humillimè imploro, ut quæ vel temerè et inconsultò, vel volenter et scienter feci, ea, ut deceat homines, condonentur.

'Henricus Wightwicke.'

Which submission or recognition being ended, he was restored to his former state, and so forthwith reassumed his place. But this person, who as lately beneficed at Kingerbury in Lincolnshire, could never be convinced, when he became Master of Pembroke College, forty-six years after this time, that he made any submission at all, but carried the business on and effected it against all the University; as to his young acquaintance that came often to visit him and he them (for he delighted in boyish company), he would, after a pedantical way, boast, supposing perhaps that, having been so many years before acted, no person could remember it; but record will rise up and justify matters when names and families are quite extirpated and forgotten among men. Pray see more of this cap-business in the year 1620."

"1620.—In the beginning of Michaelmas Term following, the cap-business, mentioned an. 1614, was renewed again: for some disrelishment of the former transactions remaining behind, the Regent Masters met together several times for the effecting their designs. At length, after much ado, they drew up a petition subscribed by fifty-three of the senior Masters for this year, and presented it to one whom they knew would not be violent against them, as Dr. Singleton was before. The beginning of it runs thus:

"'Reverendissimo Viro Domino Doctori Prideaux ornatissimo hujus Academiæ Vicecan. digniss, &c.

"'Multa jamjudum sunt (reverendissime Vicecancellarie) quæ ab antiquis hujus Academiæ institutis salubriter profecta, mala tandem consuetudo, et in pejus potens aut abrogavit penitus aut pessime corrupit, &c.'

"Among those that subscribed to it were these following, that afterwards became persons of note, viz, Gilbert Sheldon, Alexand. Gill, jun., and Anthony Farndon, of Trinity Coll.; Pet. Heylin of Magd. Coll. [Robert Newlin of C. C. C., &c.]. The chief solicitor of the business was Rous Clopton of Corpus Ch. Coll., a restless, busy person, and one afterwards as much noted for his infamy as any of the former for their learning or place. This petition, I say, being presented to Dr. Prideaux the Vicechancellor, and he considering well their several reasons for their sitting covered (one of which was that they were Judges in Congregations and Convocations), sent it to the Chancellor to have his consent, who also, after he had considered of it, wrote a letter to the Vicechancellor, to be communicated to the Convocation: the chief contents of which are these:

"'After my very harty commendations, I doe take this manner of proceeding by the Regent Masters (for their sitting covered at Congregations and Convocations) in soe good part, that although I might well take some time to advise before I give answer, especially when I consider how long that custom hath continued, how much it hath been questioned, and that upon a long debate it hath been withstood by so grave and wise a Counsellor of State as your late Chancellor, my immediate predecessor; yet, when I weigh their undoubted right, their discreet and orderly proceedings to seek it, not to take it, the chief, if not the only, cause why it was formerly denied; the good congruity this doth beare, not with Cambridge alone (though that were motive enough), but all other places, it being no where seen that those that are admitted Judges are required to sit bare-headed; I cannot choose but commend and thus farre yield to theire request as to referre it to the Convocation House. I hope no man can have cause to think that I have not the power to continew this custom as well as some others of my predecessors, if I had a mind to strive; nor that I seek after their applause in yielding them that now, which hath been so long kept from them, but the respect I have to their due, to the decency of the place, and honour of the University, which I cannot conceive to bee anyway diminished, but rather increased, by their sitting covered, are the only reasons that have moved me, and carried me to so quick a resolution, wherewith you may acquaint the Convocation House with this also, that what they shall conclude I shall willingly agree to. And soe I doe very hartely take leave, and rest

Your assured loving friend,

Pembrooke.

Baynard's Castle,
this 4 of December, 1620.'

Which letter being publickly read in a Convocation held 20 Dec., it was then agreed upon by the consent of all there present, that all Masters of what condition soever might put on their caps in Congregations and Convocations, yet with these conditions: That in the said assemblies the said Masters should use only square caps, and not sit bare, or without cap. And if any were found faulty in these matters, or that they should bring their hats in the said Assemblies, they should not only lose their suffrages for that time, but be punished as the Vicechancellor should think fit. Lastly, it was decreed, under the said conditions and no otherwise, that in the next Congregation in the beginning of Hilary Term, and so for ever after, all Masters, of what condition soever, whether Regents or not Regents, should, in Congregations and Convocations, put on and use square caps.

"All that shall be said more of this matter is, that the loss of using caps arose from the negligence of the Masters, who, to avoid the pains of bringing their caps with them, would sit bare-headed; which being used by some, was at length followed by all, and so at length became a custom."

It would seem, from Lord Pembroke's letter, that the right of the senate of this university to wear their caps had not been questioned.

C. H. Cooper.

Cambridge.

RUSSIA, TURKEY, AND THE BLACK SEA.

(Vol. ix., p. 103.)

Statements and complaints have often been made respecting the imperfect knowledge possessed by English navigators of the shores and coasts of the Black Sea, and of the great danger thence arising to ships and fleets from England, which would thus seem to be without the charts necessary for their guidance. The Guardian newspaper reiterates these complaints in its number for Jan. 11. This deficiency of charts, however, ought not to exist, and probably does not; since, no doubt, the English and French Governments would take care to supply them at the present time. As respects England, Dr. E. D. Clarke, in his well-known Travels in Russia, &c. (see vol. i. 4th edit., 8vo., London, 1816, Preface, p. x.), states that he brought—

"Certain documents with him from Odessa, at the hazard of his life, and deposited within a British Admiralty."

These documents, we are led naturally to infer, were charts; for he adds:

"They may serve to facilitate the navigation of the Russian coasts of the Black Sea, if ever the welfare of Great Britain should demand the presence of her fleets in that part of the world."

Happening to meet with this passage, in consulting Dr. Clarke's Travels, at the beginning of December, when the Fleets of Great Britain and France were on the point of entering the Black Sea, and having read in many quarters fears expressed for the fleets from the want of charts, I ventured to copy out the passage relating to these remarkable documents, and sent it to Lord Aberdeen; in case, from the alleged poverty of charts in the Admiralty Catalogues (see The Guardian, Jan. 11.), Dr. Clarke's "documents" should have fallen out of sight, and were forgotten. No notice, however, was taken of my communication; from which I concluded that it was wholly valueless.

John Macray.

Oxford.

HIGH DUTCH AND LOW DUTCH.

(Vol. viii., pp. 478. 601.)

If "N. & Q." were the publication in which questions were cursorily settled, the answer of James Spence Harry (p. 478.) might suffice with regard to the Query of S. C. P. (p. 413.); but your correspondent E. C. H., who seems also to know something about the matter, wishes for German evidence.

Should your correspondents James S. Harry and E. C. H. be acquainted (and I doubt not but they are) with the song, in which a German inquires "What is his native land?" and having called over some of the principalities, as Prussia, Suabia, Bavaria, Pomerania, Westphalia, Switzerland, Tyrol, he cries disdainfully, "No! no! no! my fatherland must be greater:" at last, despairing, he asks to name him that land, and is answered, "Wherever the German tongue is heard:"—should James S. Harry and E. C. H. recollect these words, they will conceive that such a people must have several tribes, and each tribe their peculiar dialect, founded on prescribed rules, and to which individually equal justice is due.

The dialects of the Deutsche Sprache, the German language, are the Ober Deutsche and Nieder Deutsche, Upper German and Low German: from the former dialect has, in course of time, proceeded the Hoch Deutsche Sprache, the High German language, now used exclusively as the book language by the more educated classes throughout Germany.

The principal dialects of the Ober Deutsche are the following:

1. The Allemanic, spoken in Switzerland and the Upper Rhine.

2. The Suabian, spoken in the countries between the Black Forest and the River Lech.

3. The Bavarian, spoken in the South of Bavaria and Austria.

4. The Franconian, spoken in the North of Bavaria, Hessen, and the Middle Rhine.

5. The Upper Saxon or Misnian, spoken in the plains of Saxony and Thüringia.

These dialects differ from each other, and particularly from the High German language, with regard to their elements.

The Ober Deutsche dialects differ from each other by the introduction of peculiar vowels.

The Nieder Deutsche is distinguished from the Ober Deutsche by the shifting of consonants: ex. gr.:

OBER DEUTSCHE DIALECTS. | NIEDER DEUTSCHE DIALECTS.

High
German.

Allem.

Suab.

Bavar.

Franc.

Upper
Saxony.

Lower
Saxony.

Holländisch.

English.

wein. | wi. | wai. | wai. | wein. | wein. | win. | wein. | wine.
stein. | stein. | stoi. | stoa. | staan. | steen. | steen. | steen. | stone.
weit. | wit. | wait. | wait. | weit. | weit. | wet. | weid. | wide.
breit. | breit. | broit. | broat. | braat. | breet. | breet. | breed. | broad.
haus. | hus. | haus. | haus. | haus. | haus. | hus. | huis. | house.
kaufen. | kaufen. | koufen | kafen. | kafen. | koofen. | koopen. | koopen. | to buy.
feuer. | für. | fuir. | foir. | fair. | foier. | für. | für. | fire.
kirche. | chilche | kieche | kirche. | kerche | kerche. | kerke. | kerk. | church.
herz. | herz. | heaz. | herz. | harz. | harz. | hart. | hart. | heart.
gross. | grosz. | grausz | grusz. | grausz | grusz. | groot. | groot. | great.
buch. | buech. | busch. | buech. | bouch. | buch. | book. | boek. | book.

I have introduced here, as a dialect of the Nieder Deutsche, the Dutch = Holländisch, the language spoken by the people of the Nederlanden = Niederlande = Netherlands.

The Nieder Deutsche dialect is also spoken in Westphalia, and along the river Weser, &c.

All these dialects have also their own words, or at least their peculiar meanings of words, as well as particular modes of expression, and these are to be considered as provincialisms.

Professor Goedes de Grüter.

PHOTOGRAPHIC CORRESPONDENCE.

Dr. Mansell having forwarded to me for publication the accompanying account of his mode of operation, I have much pleasure in laying it before the readers of "N. & Q.;" because my friend Dr. Mansell is not only so fortunate in his results, but is one of the most careful and correct manipulators in our art. The proportions which he recommends, and his mode of operating, are, it will be seen, somewhat different from those hitherto published. In writing to me he says: "I make a point of making a short note in the evening of the day's experiments, a plan involving very little trouble, but of great service as a reference." If all photographers would adopt this simple plan, how much good would result! Dr. M. complains to me of the constant variation he has found in collodion; (with your permission, I will in your pages furnish him, and all your readers with some plain directions on this point); and he has given me some excellent observations on the "fashionable" waxed-paper process, in which he has not met with such good results as he had anticipated; although with much experience which may some day turn to good account. Dr. Mansell concludes with an observation in which I entirely concur, viz. "That the calotype process is by far the most useful; and I find the pictures it gives have better effect than the wax ones, which always to me appear flat, even when they are not gravelly."

H. W. Diamond.

The Calotype on the Sea-shore.—The great quantity of blue light reflected from the sea renders calotyping in its vicinity much more difficult than in the country; the more distant the object, the greater depth has the blue veil which floats over it, and as a consequence of this disproportion, if time enough is given in the camera to bring out the foreground, the sky becomes red, and the distance obscured. After constant failures with papers iodized in the usual manner, I made a number of experiments to obtain a paper that would stand the camera long enough to satisfy the required conditions, and the result was the following method, which gives an intensity of blacks and half-tones, with a solidity and uniform depth over large portions of sky, greater than I have seen produced by any other process. Since I adopted it, in the autumn of 1852, I have scarcely had a failure, and this success induces me to recommend it to those who, like myself, work in highly actinising localities.

The object of the following plan is to impregnate the paper evenly with a strong body of iodide of silver. I prefer iodizing by the single process, and for this purpose use a strong solution of iodide of silver, as the paper when finished ought to have, as nearly as possible, the colour of pure iodide of silver.

Take 100 grains of nitrate of silver, and 100 grains of iodide of potassium[4], dissolve each in two ounces of distilled water, pour the iodide solution into the nitrate of silver, wash the precipitate in three distilled waters, pour off the fluid, and dissolve it in a solution of iodide of potassium, about 680 grains are required, making the whole up to four ounces.

Having cut the paper somewhat larger than the picture, turn up the edges so as to form a dish, and placing it on a board, pour into it the iodide solution abundantly, guiding it equally over the surface with a camel-hair pencil; continue to wave it to and fro for five minutes, then pour off the surplus, which serves over and over again, and after dripping the paper, lay it to dry on a round surface, so that it dries equally fast all over; when almost dry it is well to give it a sight of the fire, to finish off those parts which remain wet longest, but not more than just to surface dry it.

Immerse it in common rain-water, often changing it, and in about twenty minutes all the iodide of potash is removed. To ascertain this, take up some of the last water in a glass, and add to it a few drops of a strong solution of bichloride of mercury in alcohol, the least trace of hydriodate of potash is detected by a precipitate of iodide of mercury. A solution of nitrate of silver is no test whatever unless distilled water is used, as ordinary water almost invariably contains muriates. The sooner the washing is over the better. Pin up the paper to drip, and finish drying before a slow fire, turning it. If hung up to dry by a corner, the parts longest wet are always weaker than those that dry first. When dry pass a nearly cold iron over the back, to smooth it; if well made it has a fine primrose colour, and is perfectly even by transmitted light.

To excite the paper, take distilled water two drachms, drop into it four drops (not minims) of saturated solution of gallic acid, and eight drops (not minims) of the aceto-nitrate solution; mix. Always dilute the gallic acid by dropping it into the water before the aceto-nitrate; gallate of silver is less readily formed, and the paper keeps longer in hot weather. If the temperature is under sixty degrees, use five drops of gallic acid, and ten of aceto-nitrate; if above seventy degrees, use only three drops of gallic acid, and seven of aceto-nitrate. The aceto-nitrate solution consists of nitrate of silver fifty grains, glacial acetic acid two drachms, distilled water one ounce.

Having pinned the paper by two adjacent corners to a deal board, the eighth of an inch smaller on each side than it is, to prevent the solutions getting to the back, lay on the gallo-nitrate abundantly with a soft cotton brush (made by wedging a portion of fine cotton into a cork); and keep the solution from pooling, by using the brush with a very light hand. In about two minutes the paper has imbibed it evenly, and lies dead; blot it up, and allow it to dry in a box, or place it at once in the paper-holder. For fear of stains on the back, it is better to place on the board a clean sheet of ordinary paper for every picture. It is very important to have the glass, in which the gallo-nitrate is made, chemically clean; every time it is used, it should be washed with strong nitric acid, and then with distilled water.

To develop:—Pin the paper on the board as before; rapidly brush over it a solution of gallo-nitrate, as used to excite. As soon as the picture appears, in about a minute, pour on a saturated solution of gallic acid abundantly, and keep it from pooling with the brush, using it with a very light hand. In about ten minutes the picture is fully developed. If very slow in coming out, a few drops of pure aceto-nitrate brushed over the surface will rapidly bring out the picture; but this is seldom required, and it will sometimes brown the whites. It is better, as soon as the gallic acid has been applied, to put the picture away from the light of the candle in a box or drawer, there to develop quietly, watching its progress every three or four minutes; the surface is to be refreshed by a few light touches of the brush, adding more gallic acid if necessary. Many good negatives are spoiled by over-fidgetting in this part of the process. When the picture is fully out, wash, &c. as usual; the iodide of silver is rapidly removed by a saturated solution of hyposulphite of soda, which acts much less on the weaker blacks than it does if diluted.

If the picture will not develop, from too short exposure in the camera, a solution of pyrogallic acid, as Dr. Diamond recommends, after the gallic acid has done its utmost, greatly increases the strength of the blacks: it slightly reddens the whites, but not in the same ratio that it deepens the blacks.

After the first wash with gallo-nitrate, it is essential to develop these strongly iodized papers with gallic acid only: the half-and-half mixture of aceto-nitrate and gallic acid, which works well with weaker papers, turns these red.

The paper I use is Whatman's 1849. Turner's paper, Chafford Mills, if two or three years old, answers equally well.

M. L. Mansell, A.B. M.D.

Guernsey, Jan. 30, 1854.

Footnote 4:(return)

[Having lately prepared this solution according to the formula given by Dr. Diamond (Vol. viii., p. 597.), in which it required 650 grains to dissolve the 60-grain precipitate, we were inclined to think our correspondent had formed a wrong calculation, as the difference appeared so little for a solution more than one-third stronger. We found upon accurately following Dr. Mansell's instructions, that it required 734 grains of iodide of potassium to effect a solution, whilst we have at the same time dissolved the quantity recommended by Dr. Diamond with 598 grains. This little experiment is a useful lesson to our correspondents, exhibiting as it does the constantly varying strength of supposed pure chemicals.—Ed. "N. & Q."]

Replies to Minor Queries.

Ned o' the Todding (Vol. ix., p. 36.).—In answer to the inquiry of W. T., I beg to say that he will find the thrilling narrative of poor Ned of the Toddin in Southey's Espriella's Letters from England, vol. ii. p. 42.; but I am not aware of any lines with the above heading, by which I presume W. T. to be in search of some poetical rendering of the tale.

F. C. H.

Hour-glasses and Inscriptions on old Pulpits (Vol. ix., pp. 31. 64.).—In St. Edmund's Church, South Burlingham, stands an elegant pulpit of the fifteenth century, painted red and blue, and relieved with gilding. On it there still remains an old hour-glass, though such appendages were not introduced till some centuries probably after the erection of this pulpit. The following legend goes round the upper part of this pulpit, in the old English character:

"Inter natos mulierum non surrexit major Johanne Baptista."

F. C. H.

Table-turning (Vol. ix., pp. 39. 88.).—I have not Ammianus Marcellinus within reach, but, if I am not mistaken, after the table had been got into motion, the oracle was actually given by means of a ring. This being held over, suspended by a thread, oscillated or leaped from one to another of the letters of the alphabet which were engraved on the edge of the table, or that which covered it. The passage would not occupy many lines, and I think that many readers of "N. & Q." would be interested if some one of its learned correspondents would furnish a copy of it, with a close English translation.

N. B.

"Firm was their faith" (Vol. ix., p. 17.).—Grateful as I am to all who think well enough of my verses to discuss them in "N. & Q.," yet I cannot permit them to be incorrectly quoted or wrongly revised. If, as F. R. R. alleges, I had written in the third line of the stanza quoted—"with firm and trusting hands"—then I should have repeated the same epithet (firm) twice in three lines. Whereas I wrote, as a reference to Echoes from Old Cornwall, p. 58., will establish, stern.

R. S. Hawker.

The Wilbraham Cheshire MS. (Vol. viii., pp. 270. 303.).—With regard to this highly curious MS., I am enabled to state that it is still preserved at Delamere House, the seat of George Fortescue Wilbraham, Esq., by whom it has been continued down to the present time. Mr. Wilbraham has answered this Query himself, but from some accident his reply did not appear in the pages of "N. & Q." I therefore, having recently seen the MS., take this opportunity of assuring your querist of its existence.

W. J. Bernhard Smith.

Temple.

Mousehunt (Vol. viii., pp. 516. 606.; Vol. ix., p. 65.).—This animal is well known by this name in Norfolk, where the marten is very rare, if not entirely unknown. The Norfolk mousehunt, or mousehunter, is the Mustela vulgaris. (Vide Forby's Vocab. of East Anglia, vol. ii. p. 222., who errs, however, in calling it the stoat, but says that it is the "smallest animal of the weasel tribe, and pursues the smallest prey.") It would be of much use, both to naturalists and others, if our zoological works would give the popular provincial names of animals and birds; collectors might then more easily procure specimens from labourers, &c. I have formed a list of Norfolk names for birds, which shall appear in "N. & Q." if desired. The Norfolk Mustelidæ in order of size are the "pollcat," or weasel; the stoat, or cane; the mousehunt, mousehunter, or lobster. A popular notion of gamekeepers is, that pollcats add a new lobe to their livers every year of their lives; but the disgusting smell of the animal prevents examining this point by dissection.

E. G. R.

If Fennell's Natural History of Quadrupeds be correctly quoted, as it is stated to be "a very excellent and learned work," Mr. Fennell must have been a better naturalist than geographer, for he says of the beech marten:

"In Selkirkshire it has been observed to descend to the shore at night time to feed upon mollusks, particularly upon the large basket mussel (Mytilus modiolus)."

Selkirkshire, as you well know, is an inland county, nowhere approaching the sea by many miles: I would fain hope, for Mr. Fennell's sake, that Selkirkshire is either a misprint or a misquotation.

J. Ss.

Begging the Question (Vol. viii., p. 640.).—This is a common logical fallacy, petitio principii; and the first known use of the phrase is to be found in Aristotle, τὸ ἐν ἀρχῆ ἀιτεῖσθαι (Topics, b. VIII. ch. xiii., Bohn's edition), where the five ways of "begging the question," as also the contraries thereof, are set forth. In the Prior Analytics (b. II. ch. xvi.) he gives one instance from mathematicians—

"who fancy that they describe parallel lines, for they deceive themselves by assuming such things as they cannot demonstrate unless they are parallel. Hence it occurs to those who thus syllogise to say that each thing is, if it is; and thus everything will be known through itself, which is impossible."

T. J. Buckton.

Birmingham.

Termination "-by" (Vol. viii., p. 105.).—On going over an alphabetical list of places from A to G, I obtained these results:

Lincoln | 65
Leicester | 21
York | 24
Northampton | 9
Cumberland | 7
Norfolk | 6
Westmoreland | 3
Lancashire | 2
Derby | 2
Nottingham | 2
Sussex | 1
Total | 142

Results of a similar character were obtained in reference to -thorp, -trop, -thrup, or -drop; Lincoln again heading the list, but closely followed by Norfolk, then Leicester, Notts, &c.

B. H. C.

German Tree (Vol. viii., p. 619.; Vol. ix., p. 65.).—Eryx has mistaken my Query owing to its vagueness. When I said, "Is this the first notice of a German tree in England?" I meant, "Is this the first notice of a German-tree-in-England?" and not "Is this the first notice-in-England of a German-tree?" as Eryx understood it.

Zeus.

Celtic Etymology (Vol. ix., p. 40.).—If the h must be "exhasperated" (as Matthews used to say) in words adopted into the English language, how does it happen that we never hear it in hour, honour, heir, honest, and humour? Will E. C. H. be so kind as to inform me on this point? With regard to the word humble, in support of the h being silent, I have seen it stated in a dictionary, but by whom I cannot call to mind, in a list of words nearly spelled alike, and whose sound is the same:

"Humble, low, submissive."

"Umbles, the entrails of a deer."

Hence the point of the sarcasm "He will be made to eat humble pie;" and it serves in this instance to show that the h is silent when the word is properly pronounced.

The two words isiol and irisiol, properly uirisiol, which E. C. H. has stated to be the original Celtic words signifying humble, have quite a different meaning: for isiol is quietly, silently, without noise; and uirisiol means, sneaking, cringing, crawling, terms which could not be applied without injustice to a really humble honest person. The Iberno-Phœnician umal bears in itself evidence that it is not borrowed from any other language, for the two syllables are intelligible apart from each other; and the word can be at once reduced to its root um, to which the Sanscrit word kshama, as given by E. C. H., bears no resemblance whatever.

Fras. Crossley.

Recent Curiosities of Literature (Vol. ix., p. 31.).—Your correspondent Mr. Cuthbert Bede has done well in directing Mr. Thackeray's attention to the error of substituting "candle" for "candlestick," at p. 47. of The Newcomes; but it appears that the author discovered the error, and made a clumsy effort to rectify it; for he elsewhere gives us to understand, that she died of a wound in her temple, occasioned by coming into contact with the stone stairs. See H. Newcome's letter.

The following curiosity of literature lately appeared in the London papers, in a biographical notice of the late Viscount Beresford, which is inserted in the Naval and Military Gazette of January 14, 1854:

"Of honorary badges he had, first, A cross dependent from seven clasps: this indicated his having been present in eleven battles during the Peninsular War. His name was unaccountably omitted in the return of those present at Ciudad Rodrigo. When Her Majesty gracefully extended the honorary distinctions to all the survivors of the great war, Lord Beresford received the Peninsular medal, with two clasps, for Egypt and Ciudad Rodrigo."

The expression should have been "the silver medal," not "Peninsular;" as, among the names of battles engraved on the clasps attached to the silver war-medals, granted in 1849, will be found the words "Martinique," "Fort Détroit," "Chateauguay," "Chrystler's Farm," and "Egypt."

Juverna.

D. O. M. (Vol. iii, p. 173.).—I am surprised that there should be the least doubt that the above are the initials of "Datur omnibus mori."

R. W. D.

Dr. John Taylor (Vol. viii., p. 299.).—There are several errors in the communication of S. R. He states that "Dr. John Taylor was buried at Kirkstead, Lancashire, where his tomb is distinguished by the following simple inscription."

1. Kirkstead is in Lincolnshire.

2. Dr. John Taylor lies interred in the burial-ground attached to the Presbyterian Chapel at Chowbent, near Bolton, in Lancashire.

3. The inscription on the tombstone is as follows:

"Here is interred the Rev. John Taylor, D.D., of Warrington, formerly of Norwich, who died March 5, 1761, aged 66."

4. The inscription given by S. R. is on a slab in the chapel at Chowbent. I may add that this inscription was drawn up by Dr. Enfield.

Thomas Baker.

Manchester.

Lines attributed to Hudibras (Vol. i., p. 211.).—

"For he that fights and runs away,

May live to fight another day."

In so far as I can understand from the various articles in "N. & Q." regarding the above quotation, it is to be found in the Musarum Deliciæ, 12mo., 1656. There is a copy of this volume now lying before me, the title-page of which runs thus:

"Musarum Deliciæ, or the Muses' Recreation; containing severall pieces of Poetique Wit. The second edition, by Sr J. M. and Ja. S. London: Printed by J. G. for Henry Herringman, and are to be sold at his Shop, at the Signe of the Anchor in the New Exchange, 1656."

This copy seems to have at one time belonged to Longmans, as it is described in the Bib. An. Poetica, having the signatures of "Orator Henly," "Ritson," and "J. Park." I have read this volume over carefully twice, and I must confess my inability to find any such two lines as the above noted, there. As I do not think Mr. Cunningham, in his Handbook of London, or Dr. Rimbault, would mislead any one, I am afraid my copy, being a second edition, may be incomplete; and as I certainly did not get the volume for nothing, will either of these gentlemen, or any other of the readers of "N. & Q.," who have seen other editions, let me know this?

There is a question asked by Melanion regarding the entire quotation, which I have not yet seen answered, which is,—

"For he that fights and runs away,

May live to fight another day;

But he that is in battle slain,

Can never hope to fight again."

Are these last two lines in the Musarum Deliciæ? or are these four lines to be found anywhere in conjunction? If this could be found, it would in my opinion settle the question.

S. Wmson.

"Corporations have no Souls," &c. (Vol. viii., p. 587.).—In Poynder's Literary Extracts, under the title "Corporations," there occurs the following passage:

"Lord Chancellor Thurlow said that corporations have neither bodies to be punished, nor souls to be condemned; they therefore do as they like."

There are also two long extracts, one from Cowper's Task, book IV., and the other from the Life of Wilberforce, vol. ii., Appendix, bearing on the same subject.

Arch. Weir.

Lord Mayor of London a Privy Councillor (Vol. iv. passim).—Mr. Serjeant Merewether, Town Clerk to the Corporation of London, in his examination before the City Corporation Commission, said that it had been the practice from time immemorial, to summon the Lord Mayor of London to the first Privy Council held after the demise of the crown. (The Standard, Jan. 13, 1854, p. i. col. 5.)

L. Hartly.

Booty's Case (Vol. iii., p. 170.).—A story resembling that of "Old Booty" is to be found in St. Gregory the Great's Dialogues, iii. 30., where it is related that a hermit saw Theodoric thrown into the crater of Lipari by two of his victims, Pope John and Symmachus.

J. C. R.

"Sat cito, si sat bene" (Vol. vii. p. 594.).—St. Jerome (Ep. lxvi. § 9., ed. Vallars) quotes this as a maxim of Cato's.

J. C. R.

Celtic and Latin Languages (Vol. ix., p. 14.).—Allow me to suggest to T. H. T. that the word Gallus, a Gaul, is not, of course, the same as the Irish Gal, a stranger. Is it not rather the Latin form of Gaoithil (pronounced Gael or Gaul), the generic appellation of our Erse population? In Welsh it is Gwydyl, to this day their term for an Irishman.

Gaoll, stranger, is used in Erse to denote a foreign settler, e.g. the Earl of Caithness is Morphear (pronounced Morar) Gaoll, the stranger great man; being lord of a corner of the land inhabited by a foreign race.

Galloway, on the other hand, takes its name from the Gael, being possessed by a colony of that people from Kintyre, &c., who long retained the name of the wild Scots[5] of Galloway, to distinguish them from the Brets or British inhabitants of the rest of the border.

Francis John Scott, M.A.

Holy Trinity, Tewkesbury.

Footnote 5:(return)

Scot or Scott is applied only to the men of Gaelic extraction in our old records.

Brydone the Tourist's Birth-place (Vol. vii., p. 108.).—According to Chambers's Lives of Scotsmen, vol. i. p. 384., 1832, Brydone was the son of a clergyman in the neighbourhood of Dumbarton, where he was born in the year 1741. When he came to England, he was engaged as travelling preceptor by Mr. Beckford, to whom his Tour through Sicily and Malta is addressed. In a copy of this work, now before me, I find the following remarks written in pencil:

"These travels are written in a very plausible style, but little dependence is to be placed upon their veracity. Brydone never was on the summit of Ætna, although he describes the prospect from it in such glowing colours."

It is right to add, that the writer of these remarks was long a resident in Italy, and in constant habits of intercourse with the most distinguished scholars of that country.

J. Macray.

Oxford.

Miscellaneous.

NOTES ON BOOKS, ETC.

The second volume of Murray's British Classics, which is also the second of Mr. Cunningham's edition of The Works of Oliver Goldsmith, fully justifies all we said in commendation of its predecessor. It contains Goldsmith's Enquiry into the State of Polite Literature in Europe, and his admirable series of letters, entitled The Citizen of the World. Mr. Cunningham tells us that "he has been careful to mark all Goldsmith's own notes with his name;" his predecessors having in some instances adopted them as their own, and in others omitted them altogether, although they are at times curiously illustrative of the text. We are glad to see that Mr. Murray announces a new edition, revised and greatly enlarged, of Mr. Foster's valuable Life of Goldsmith, uniform with the present collection of Goldsmith's writings.

Memorials of the Canynges Family and their Times; Westbury College, Redcliffe Church, and Chatterton, by George Pryce, is the somewhat abbreviated title of a goodly octavo volume, on which Mr. Pryce has bestowed great industry and research, and by which he hopes to clear away the mists of error which have overshadowed the story of the Canynges family during the Middle Ages, and to show their connexion with the erection or restoration of Westbury College and Redcliff Church. As Mr. Pryce has some few inedited memoranda relating to Chatterton, he has done well to incorporate them in a volume dedicated in some measure to the history of Bristol's "Merchant Prince."

Poetical Works of Henry Howard, Earl of Surrey, Minor Contemporaneous Poets, and Thomas Sackville, Lord Buckhurst, edited by Robert Bell, forms the second volume of Parker's Annotated Edition of the British Poets. Availing himself, very properly, of the labours of his predecessors, Mr. Bell has given us very agreeable and valuable memoirs of Surrey and Buckhurst; and we have no doubt that this cheap edition of their works will be the means of putting them into the hands of many readers to whom they were before almost entirely unknown.

The Library Committee of the Society of Antiquaries, having had under their consideration the state of the engraved portraits in the possession of the Society, consulted one of the Fellows, Mr. W. Smith, as to the best mode of arrangement. That gentleman, having gone through the collection, advised that in future the Society should chiefly direct its attention to the formation of a series of engraved Portraits of the Fellows, and with great liberality presented about one hundred and fifty such portraits as his contribution towards such collection. Mr. Smith's notion is certainly a very happy one: and we mention that and his very handsome donation, in hopes of thereby rendering as good service to the Society's Collection of Portraits, as we are glad to learn has been rendered to their matchless Series of Proclamations by our occasional notices of them.

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Notices to Correspondents.

J. D. (Cheltenham). The work you allude to is Wace's Roman de Brut, which was published under the editorship of M. Le Roux de Lincy in 1836.

B. O. The paginal references are omitted to the extracts from Mr. Buckley's translation of Æschylus; but probably the original text would solve the Query.

R. The print of a bishop burnt in Smithfield cannot be identified without a sight of the engraving.

G. D. For the origin of Plough Monday, see Brady's Clavis Calendaria, vol. i. pp. 160-162.; and Brand's Popular Antiquities, vol. i. pp. 505-508. (Bohn's edition).

A Communication from Dr. Diamond on the manufacture of collodion, and also a very interesting one from Mr. J. Maxwell Lyte, in our next Number.

Anonymous Photographic Correspondent. We have given in former Numbers admirable formulæ for printing positives. Mr. Pollock's mode on albumenised paper produces beautiful results, as does also the more simple one recommended by Dr. Diamond. In one of our earliest Photographic communications an iodized form was given which may be used by feeble or artificial light, and which is highly useful.

A. R. (Bombay). Iodide of silver should not be dried for photographic purposes after it is formed; therefore you must rest contented to approach the nearest you can to the requisite quantity by careful manipulation. A note appended to our photographic article in this Number sufficiently indicates how often we must depend upon our own judgment, and how difficult it is to reduce Photography to exact laws when the substances used are so constantly varying.

T. M. The sample sent of Whatman's writing-paper iodizes most beautifully. It has always been the case that paper made for ordinary purposes is often much better than that made for Photography alone.

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Table of Contents

- NOTES AND QUERIES:

- A MEDIUM OF INTER-COMMUNICATION FOR LITERARY MEN, ARTISTS, ANTIQUARIES, GENEALOGISTS, ETC.

- "When found, make a note of."—Captain Cuttle.

- CONTENTS.

- GEORGE BELL,
- WORKS
- REV. DR. MAITLAND.

- Notes.

- ELIMINATE.

- CRANMER'S BIBLE.

- SOVEREIGNS DINING AND SUPPING IN PUBLIC.

- PARALLEL IDEAS FROM POETS.

- THE GREAT ALPHABETIC PSALM, AND THE SONGS OF DEGREES.

- Minor Notes.

- Queries.

- CORONATION STONE.

- OLD MEREWORTH CASTLE, KENT.

- Minor Queries.

- Minor Queries with Answers.

- Replies.

- "CONSILIUM NOVEM DELECTORUM CARDINALIUM," ETC.

- JOHN BUNYAN.

- THE ASTEROIDS, ETC.

- CAPS AT CAMBRIDGE.

- RUSSIA, TURKEY, AND THE BLACK SEA.

- HIGH DUTCH AND LOW DUTCH.

- PHOTOGRAPHIC CORRESPONDENCE.

- Replies to Minor Queries.

- Miscellaneous.

- NOTES ON BOOKS, ETC.

- BOOKS AND ODD VOLUMES

- Notices to Correspondents.

- ARCHITECTURAL STUDIES IN FRANCE.

- WESTERN LIFE ASSURANCE AND ANNUITY SOCIETY.

- THE FULL PROJECT GUTENBERG™ LICENSE